PODCAST: Season 7, Episode 32
What does it really cost women to keep climbing? And what happens when you choose to step off the ladder not because you failed, but because you finally got honest about what you actually want?
Mills is joined by Dolly Jones, former editor of British Vogue and author of Leaving the Ladder Down a book about the realities of working motherhood that started with a conversation in a London taxi and ended up interviewing women from every walk of life.
This is a conversation about identity, imposter syndrome, the stories we tell ourselves about success, and what it looks and feels like to build something that actually fits your life.
What we cover:
- Dolly’s route into journalism work experience at Vogue, being put in a basement in 1998 to figure out ‘this internet thing’, and becoming editor
- Getting promoted while pregnant and why one man’s completely unbothered reaction was more radical than it should have been
- The moment in Italy that changed everything: removing her heels and crawling back into bed with her ill son
- The Bloomberg job she turned down because she wasn’t willing to give up the school run
- Why leaving Vogue felt like being released from a very glamorous prison
- Identity after corporate: the consultancy bridge, the imposter syndrome that didn’t disappear, and building her third act
- The taxi driver who inspired the book and why Dolly deliberately sought out the full spectrum of working mothers
- The myth of the “strung-out working mother” and why the narrative needs to change
- What she learned about herself writing the book (hint: the inner critic was very loud)
- Her unexpected wind-down: weekly piano lessons with an 80-year-old teacher at 50
Quotes:
“When I left Vogue, I felt like I’d been released from prison. I thought I was at the top. Actually, I was just in one place. The world is wide.”
“Nobody said: I wish I hadn’t tried this. Not one person in the whole book.”
“Success is liking who you are, liking what you do, and liking how you do it. — Maya Angelou, quoted by Ruth Chapman to Dolly”
“People like to be contacted and remembered. And if they don’t get back to you, that’s fine. But generally, you get some really nice interaction from people you might not expect.”
About Dolly Jones:
Dolly Jones spent over 20 years at British Vogue, starting in the basement working on “the internet” in 1998 and eventually becoming editor. Since leaving, she has worked as a consultant, served on the board of domestic abuse charity Advance, and co-chairs the governors at her children’s primary school. Her book, Leaving the Ladder Down, explores the realities of working motherhood through interviews with women from every profession and background.
Resources mentioned:
- Leaving the Ladder Down by Dolly Jones
- The Professional Troublemaker
- Advance — charity supporting survivors of domestic abuse (Dolly is on the board)
- Come say hi on Instagram: @mills_gray